Jared Crozier: Breaking: Head Coach Dave Cameron Fired By Senators

Good, necessary move.'

But this revolving door needs to stop.

You don't have a #1 center (or a #2 center for half the season).

You don't have a legitimate 2nd line RW.

You don't have any scoring depth in your bottom two lines whatsoever.

You don't have a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

You don't have a #3 Dman until the deadline or a legitimate bottom pairing.

.........and it's the coach's fault.

I still maintain that with our injuries and the holes in every spot in our lineup, this (frank)ing team overachieved this season.

If you want to blame Cameron, blame him for not getting us a high enough draft pick.

Good!

Looks like Dorion will do a significant makeover. I hope that he is just as decisive on the player personnel side.

We need a coach that can bring discipline, defensive structure and better special teams. The coach will need the players who are capable and willing to do it.

Good!

Looks like Dorion will do a significant makeover. I hope that he is just as decisive on the player personnel side.

We need a coach that can bring discipline, defensive structure and better special teams. The coach will need the players who are capable and willing to do it.
- SensFan25

What's funny is that this exactly what they praised him for LAST SEASON.

You don't have a #1 center (or a #2 center for half the season).

You don't have a legitimate 2nd line RW.

You don't have any scoring depth in your bottom two lines whatsoever.

You don't have a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

You don't have a #3 Dman until the deadline or a legitimate bottom pairing.

.........and it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

Ottawa will likely have Turris, Zibanejad, Pageau and Lazar down the middle next year. Solid enough. Zibanejad had a good season, a strong second half. He plays at 222 lbs. He has the size, the shot and is a very strong skater.

Look at his numbers in comparison to his draft class over this year (RNH, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Strome, Schiefle, Couturier)

I do not want to see major player changes. Changing the entire coaching staff is a huge disruption. I would be happy is they added a top power forward and another physical Dman with size.

But if you ever go deep in the Stanley Cup playoffs Zibanejad is the kind of player that helps teams win it all.

As much as I hate burning through coaches continuously, I think this is a deserved and needed move. Cameron wasn't working out and his decisions were questionable. I am hoping this means the Sens have a guy in mind. An experienced guy who can fix the Sens defensive systems.

There's been a lot of talk about what moves to make, and a lot of it focuses at centre. I think the C position is fine with Turris, Zibanejad and Pageau. I'm okay with Lazar as the #4, but I do have some concerns about depth. It is clear to me that Turris is an okay #1, Zibanejad is a decent #2 and Pageau is a quite good #3. That being said, Pageau was used as a #1 because of a hot streak and chemistry with Stone and Smith. Pageau isn't complete enough to be a #1 at all. Zibanejad struggled when put into the #1 spot as well. So there isn't the depth at C to elevate when either a #1 or #2 goes down. It is very important for the Sens to have a healthy Turris and Zibanejad.

The reason I think it is okay to leave C alone though, is because the Sens have the cap space to build balance lines with high quality wingers. They don't have to rely on being top tier up the middle if they have very good wingers.

I like Ryan, Stone, Hoffman as a group of core guys on the wing. I think Smith as the 3LW is good if he can continue to find chemistry playing with Pageau. I'd like to hope that MacArthur is able to come back and be a solid #2LW. He can't be moved. No GM would risk his health. I like Hoffman as a #1 LW. He is streaky, but if he is in a deep cast of forwards, he can excel.

I'm okay with the Sens top 4 , and the D as a whole. That being said, I'd prefer 1 more guy on the left side as a solid stay at home guy t play with Wideman. I'm okay with Boro being the fill in press box guy, but I'd like a genuine proven guy for that bottom pair.

I don't want to trade Hoffman, but if the Sens are forced to move him, the return better be good. I'm not high on Drouin but I would accept a Hoffman for Drouin straight up trade. I'd be interested to see if the Sens could swing a Hoffman + Chabot + for Hall. Oilers get a top LW, and they desperately need a LD...ANY sort of LD. Not sure how high the oilers are on Hall, but it would take a big trade to make that happen.

Zibanejad was talking today about maybe playing for Sweden, but he also said something interesting about the off season. Instead of heading back to Sweden like usual, he is going to stay in Ottawa and work on his conditioning over the summer. He wants more professional training to know how to keep his body ready etc. I'm hoping that means he doesn't take so long to get going. His production took about a month to get going this year. If' he could play a solid 82 game season instead of a 65 game season he may be able to hit close to 60 points...maybe.

You don't have a #1 center (or a #2 center for half the season).

You don't have a legitimate 2nd line RW.

You don't have any scoring depth in your bottom two lines whatsoever.

You don't have a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

You don't have a #3 Dman until the deadline or a legitimate bottom pairing.

.........and it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

Whoa. Come on now.

Say what you will about the RW position, but Ryan is fine at 2RW. He might be overpaid but his stats are well in line with being a 2RW.

No scoring depth on the bottom two lines....didn't they finish top 10 in the entire league in scoring, despite missing the playoffs? Ludicrous.

I think you've completely missed on what Ottawa needs in terms of personnel, which isn't actually much to be honest. Shore up the LW and get a solid vet for the 3rd pair, and a good coach can make that roster into a playoff team easily. Coaching wasn't the only problem, but it was probably the biggest one.

Ottawa will likely have Turris, Zibanejad, Pageau and Lazar down the middle next year. Solid enough. Zibanejad had a good season, a strong second half. He plays at 222 lbs. He has the size, the shot and is a very strong skater.

Look at his numbers in comparison to his draft class over this year (RNH, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Strome, Schiefle, Couturier)

I do not want to see major player changes. Changing the entire coaching staff is a huge disruption. I would be happy is they added a top power forward and another physical Dman with size.

But if you ever go deep in the Stanley Cup playoffs Zibanejad is the kind of player that helps teams win it all.
- spatso

The guy who's out of shape, it's scared to get hit, and never wins a puck battle in the corners is 'the kind of player that helps teams win it all'?

Whoa. Come on now.

Say what you will about the RW position, but Ryan is fine at 2RW. He might be overpaid but his stats are well in line with being a 2RW.

No scoring depth on the bottom two lines....didn't they finish top 10 in the entire league in scoring, despite missing the playoffs? Ludicrous.

I think you've completely missed on what Ottawa needs in terms of personnel, which isn't actually much to be honest. Shore up the LW and get a solid vet for the 3rd pair, and a good coach can make that roster into a playoff team easily. Coaching wasn't the only problem, but it was probably the biggest one.
- the_terror

I actually meant LW there. My bad.

We had Hoffman as our #1 and Mac, who didn't play as our #2. Smith did fine there for a bit, but no one expects him to stay there or produce like that long term.

Management and the fanbase is delusional. It all stems from ownership down. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Everyone around this team thinks we are better than we are. And now Dorion is taking over and he's probably the worst of them all. In his eyes, every prospect is amazing and this team is a playoff team. He's said it the last 4 years running and we've missed twice and made it on one of the finals spots the other years.

There is so much wishful thinking around this organization it's absolutely crazy. It honestly reminds me of leaf fans a decade ago.

Impartial analysts all tell it like it is. TSN and Sportsnet have both run articles talking about how this team just isn't that good. It's not on the coach. It's just not a great team, period.

The last two times we made the playoffs, we had to do it in dramatic fashion.

A few years ago, it was the 'pesky sens' who got in by playing rope-a-dope and relying on amazing goaltending from THREE different guys.

Last year, it was the miracle run that will never be seen again in the NHL.

Our team hasn't really improved over the years. Who are the new players that weren't around back then who are making things better? Bobby Ryan? I'd still rather have Spezza. If anything, all we've done is LOSE good players and replace them with lesser players.

Yet management and ownership are pissed at coaching for not taking this team to the playoffs. It's unbelievable.

You don't have a #1 center (or a #2 center for half the season).

You don't have a legitimate 2nd line RW.

You don't have any scoring depth in your bottom two lines whatsoever.

You don't have a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

You don't have a #3 Dman until the deadline or a legitimate bottom pairing.

.........and it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

Fair points however,

Routinely gave up huge numbers of shots.

Horrendous special teams.

Giving up the first goal constantly.

Some very questionable line combinations.

nothing like being a budget team, refusing to bring in the talent needed to compete
then firing your coach because you cant compete

and this isnt the first guy to fall because of this

Fair points however,

Routinely gave up huge numbers of shots.

Horrendous special teams.

Giving up the first goal constantly.

Some very questionable line combinations.
- david22

Placed Boro as #1LW for 5 games.
Refused to put Hoffman on top PP ( 15 games total this year )
Openly called out the only player excelling this year.
many other questionable player position moves.

Fair points however,

Routinely gave up huge numbers of shots.

Horrendous special teams.

Giving up the first goal constantly.

Some very questionable line combinations.
- david22

This is because, until we brought in Phaneuf, we had ONE pairing that was NHL quality.

Not taking anything away from Ceci, but when you're anchored to Weircioch or Cowen, you are automatically not an NHL quality pairing.

Special teams I will admit is on coaching. That said, when you have horrible D, and two of your top PK forwards are out for most of the season (Turris/Mac) you can't expect a good PK. Every time Chiasson and Zibby stepped on the ice to PK, I cringed.

nothing like being a budget team, refusing to bring in the talent needed to compete
then firing your coach because you cant compete

and this isnt the first guy to fall because of this
- nightmare3020

Exactly.. A budget team who was missing their 1st line center from Dec on.

It's funny.. on this very thread, we had the conversation that if Turris ever went down, we'd be (frank)ed. We rely on him way too much. We aren't deep enough to handle that big of a loss.

What happened? Turris went down, while we were still in a playoff spot, and we missed the playoffs.

And now everyone says it's the coach's fault.

I'd love to see the Senators go for it with Stamkos. I don't think Melnyk can afford him but I think he would be a great add plus Ottawa has a great Toronto Maple Leafs following, it'd be like playing in Toronto.

I actually meant LW there. My bad.

We had Hoffman as our #1 and Mac, who didn't play as our #2. Smith did fine there for a bit, but no one expects him to stay there or produce like that long term.

Management and the fanbase is delusional. It all stems from ownership down. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Everyone around this team thinks we are better than we are. And now Dorion is taking over and he's probably the worst of them all. In his eyes, every prospect is amazing and this team is a playoff team. He's said it the last 4 years running and we've missed twice and made it on one of the finals spots the other years.

There is so much wishful thinking around this organization it's absolutely crazy. It honestly reminds me of leaf fans a decade ago.

Impartial analysts all tell it like it is. TSN and Sportsnet have both run articles talking about how this team just isn't that good. It's not on the coach. It's just not a great team, period.

The last two times we made the playoffs, we had to do it in dramatic fashion.

A few years ago, it was the 'pesky sens' who got in by playing rope-a-dope and relying on amazing goaltending from THREE different guys.

Last year, it was the miracle run that will never be seen again in the NHL.

Our team hasn't really improved over the years. Who are the new players that weren't around back then who are making things better? Bobby Ryan? I'd still rather have Spezza. If anything, all we've done is LOSE good players and replace them with lesser players.

Yet management and ownership are pissed at coaching for not taking this team to the playoffs. It's unbelievable.
- Charliebox

Delusional is a stretch in my opinion. It seems like a negative way of phrasing optimism.

The team IS better than their record. This is not a Stanley Cup contender, but there's no way that they're as bad as that record shows.

This year, they were counting on Turris, MacArthur, Michalek, Cowen, Wiercioch. Injuries and overestimation of talent on all 5 of these guys.

I'm not saying that I think this is a team that is going to contend for a Stanley Cup next year. What I'm saying is this: if they add a 1st or 2nd line LW and resign Hoffman, and they add a veteran Dman who can be counted on to stabilize that 3rd pair with Wideman, and if they get MacArthur back as a contributing player, then a good coach could easily take this roster to the playoffs.

We like to play this chicken little game in Ottawa, but it's not as bad as it seems. They've hugely f'ed up on coaches. Paddock, Hartsburg, Clouston, Cameron, all four were mistakes. I won't include MacLean in that group because the guy was a legit coach before he lost his damn mind. But the on-ice personnel, for the most part, it's there.

I'm not delusional, but I refuse to buy into the idea that this team is a bottom feeder based on their players. They're not elite, but they're not garbage. A healthy roster with a couple of player moves and they'll be a problem for most teams.

And we can complain about how their record since going to the SCF back in 2007 has been poor, but think about how it must feel to be a fan of the Islanders, or Panthers, or Blues, or Leafs, or any other team who's record of futility extends far beyond a 9 year period.

Ottawa has scoring ability, they've got the best dman in the world, and they have a reasonably good chance to improve with the right leadership. I'm not delusional enough to think that they're gonna make a cup run with Claude Julien, but I do think that they will be a far better team with a better coach.

LOL Senators

They are the team I love to hate and Love to see struggle

but mainly because of that douche Melnyk

Delusional is a stretch in my opinion. It seems like a negative way of phrasing optimism.

The team IS better than their record. This is not a Stanley Cup contender, but there's no way that they're as bad as that record shows.

This year, they were counting on Turris, MacArthur, Michalek, Cowen, Wiercioch. Injuries and overestimation of talent on all 5 of these guys.

I'm not saying that I think this is a team that is going to contend for a Stanley Cup next year. What I'm saying is this: if they add a 1st or 2nd line LW and resign Hoffman, and they add a veteran Dman who can be counted on to stabilize that 3rd pair with Wideman, and if they get MacArthur back as a contributing player, then a good coach could easily take this roster to the playoffs.

We like to play this chicken little game in Ottawa, but it's not as bad as it seems. They've hugely f'ed up on coaches. Paddock, Hartsburg, Clouston, Cameron, all four were mistakes. I won't include MacLean in that group because the guy was a legit coach before he lost his damn mind. But the on-ice personnel, for the most part, it's there.

I'm not delusional, but I refuse to buy into the idea that this team is a bottom feeder based on their players. They're not elite, but they're not garbage. A healthy roster with a couple of player moves and they'll be a problem for most teams.

And we can complain about how their record since going to the SCF back in 2007 has been poor, but think about how it must feel to be a fan of the Islanders, or Panthers, or Blues, or Leafs, or any other team who's record of futility extends far beyond a 9 year period.

Ottawa has scoring ability, they've got the best dman in the world, and they have a reasonably good chance to improve with the right leadership. I'm not delusional enough to think that they're gonna make a cup run with Claude Julien, but I do think that they will be a far better team with a better coach.
- the_terror

To respond to the bolded part.. if we had all those things this season, then Cameron would have taken us to the playoffs.

Just to be clear. I also don't think this team is a bottom feeder. This team is a bubble playoff team. They are a 7-10 team.

If they play well, and stay healthy, they are a 7.

If they struggle and have injuries, they are a 10.

They struggled and had injuries this season. The delusion comes when your ownership, and management, see your top center, and your 2LLW go down for the season and STILL think the team should be in the playoffs.

That is delusion. I'm sorry. The fans pick up on it. It's the same thing that happened in Toronto for years and years. They were a bubble team, but their management thought they were amazing.. and so did the fans.

Most good teams would struggle to make the playoffs if you took away their #1 center for 50 games. (I am counting the games he attempted to play in there, cause he was a liability if anything).

To a bubble team, with no depth, that's death.

And now everyone says it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

There are a number of areas that can be improved. Coaching is one of them.
I would like to see a team that does not give up 30+ shots a game, in the bottom 2 or 3 teams. The team defense is terrible. Special teams were very poor.
Adding Phaneuf helped to fix the biggest hole on the roster. There are other improvements that can be made.

Seriously? You actually believe that in spite of all the bizarre coaching decisions and absolute lack of PK and PP structure, that Cameron was not a major part of the problem!!! A healthy Turris would have prolonged the playoff hope drama, but you are seriously over-rating his ability if you think he would have been the saviour. Charliebox, give your head a shake!

Seriously? You actually believe that in spite of all the bizarre coaching decisions and absolute lack of PK and PP structure, that Cameron was not a major part of the problem!!! A healthy Turris would have prolonged the playoff hope drama, but you are seriously over-rating his ability if you think he would have been the saviour. Charliebox, give your head a shake!

Exactly.. A budget team who was missing their 1st line center from Dec on.

It's funny.. on this very thread, we had the conversation that if Turris ever went down, we'd be (frank)ed. We rely on him way too much. We aren't deep enough to handle that big of a loss.

What happened? Turris went down, while we were still in a playoff spot, and we missed the playoffs.

And now everyone says it's the coach's fault.
- Charliebox

I mean was he a perfect coach? No
One thing i would like to see is them bring in some more defensive depth so you can cut karlsons mins down

No sense using him 30 mins a night, when you do that, he has to pace him self a bit more and can cost him in the long run .

id rather let a guy run at full speed for 22-24 then play him 30 + and have him pacing him self

To respond to the bolded part.. if we had all those things this season, then Cameron would have taken us to the playoffs.

Just to be clear. I also don't think this team is a bottom feeder. This team is a bubble playoff team. They are a 7-10 team.

If they play well, and stay healthy, they are a 7.

If they struggle and have injuries, they are a 10.

They struggled and had injuries this season. The delusion comes when your ownership, and management, see your top center, and your 2LLW go down for the season and STILL think the team should be in the playoffs.

That is delusion. I'm sorry. The fans pick up on it. It's the same thing that happened in Toronto for years and years. They were a bubble team, but their management thought they were amazing.. and so did the fans.

Most good teams would struggle to make the playoffs if you took away their #1 center for 50 games. (I am counting the games he attempted to play in there, cause he was a liability if anything).

To a bubble team, with no depth, that's death.
- Charliebox

Well, with respect to the bolded part above, what the actual f**k do you expect the coach and management to say? Should they have said something like 'well, Turris and MacArthur are hurt, so we had better fold the tents and go home because the 18 guys we're paying millions of dollars to play here aren't good enough to win'?

Come on. I'm positive that they knew the odds were heavily against them, but there's no way any professional is going to come out and say 'we're f**ked'. Having a losing attitude breeds losers.

It was a horrible situation to deal with. Those are tough injuries and yeah of course they're a huge part of why they aren't in the playoffs right now. But you can't tell me that this coaching crew was doing their job. This is a team that gave up 27 shots to a non-playoff team in a single period. This is a case of either the players not executing their gameplan, or that the preparation wasn't there. Based on how often that broken record played out this year, I'd be more than willing to place my money on it being poor preparation, which is really on the coaches. It seems obvious to me that they were practicing the wrong way.

Time will tell though. They're not gonna make massive roster overhauls. So, new coach next year, same results, then it's the players. New coach next year, improved team, it was the coaches. Too early to pass judgement regardless, but I for one was not prepared to watch them go through another year with Cameron mouth breathing in confusion behind that bench. So, very good start to the new GM's tenure in my opinion.